As has been said previously, I'd wager this is likely a function of how the vehicles and figures were stored. My childhood figures and vehicles took a beating because they were stored in an attic where the temp went from over 100 to well below freezing over the course of a year. After a decade or so in that enviorment, the plastic went bad in some cases. However, I now keep my vehicles in my garage where it is consistently over 120 for 6 months of the year and they have no issues. My figures are all fine, with the exception of those I buy from others and are brittle when I get them. But, none of my figures have degraded in my possession.


Not really. Those figures were made to be cheap and you can see some construction problems in them from where Hasbro cut corners to get toys at a $3 retail price point. In terms of design, those figures were hits and misses. For every gem like the Desert Stalker, you got a few duds like the rest of the Desert set. The soft plastic is easly warped and it makes it hard for some figures to hold accessories (especially pistols) properly. The accessory complements were largely terrible and characters with iconic weapons were rearmed with whatever overstock Hasbro had available at the factories.

Overall, I think there were some great figures in the modern releases, but you had to wade through an equal number of crap figures to find them. (Though, I place the blame for that largely on Hasbro as it became apparent that they gave up on the 6 packs in '04 and their insistence on following the comics chronologically got stale since all the initial comic pack figures looked too similar. A lesson learned as it was not followed in Star Wars nor the 25th Anniversary lines.)

Overall, the 2002-2006 was the epitome of unfullfilled potential. It seems that a large part of the success of the 25th line is the packaging. (Which is why boxed sets and comic packs linger while single packs seem to sell more quickly.) Had Hasbro followed suit with that back in 2002 with the new sculpt figures, they would have likely experienced more initial success. But, that line probably would have also fizzled more quickly since the nostalgia for Joes wasn't as mature as it is today. Hasbro made a LOT of mistakes with the modern Joe releases and seemed to learn from those mistakes for this line. I fully believe that had Joe returned to retail in 2002 with single package card art like the 25th figs, it wouldn't have mattered which sculpt type they used as they would have been more universally received. (I don't think Hasbro's consumer sales would be impacted much had they returned ARAH style molds in the anniversary packaging last year. It took the new style to convince retailers. But, I don't think consumers would much care if the molds were new or old as long as the packaging and presentation of major characters in their classic look was there.)

Overall, I think that a lot of collectors are too quick to dismiss the ARAH Joes for what they were. There is no toyline that has yet surpassed the ingenuity, quantity and quality of the original line. (Though, with these new vehicles on the way, it is looking like the modern Star Wars might in the next couple years.) The anniverary line commemorates the original line and it seems that too many collectors have forgotten that. They are quick to degrade the original figures. But, I will guarantee, in 10 years when Joe is long gone from retail, it will the guys who maintained their vintage love (which doesn't mean they can't like the new stuff, it's just that they collected vintage and understand it's place and legacy and didn't throw it all away for whatever new wunderkind that Hasbro throws to retail) that will still be here and will the driving force keeping the Joe brand alive.

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As always, love your posts Mike. You can do that which is rare: separate your personal feelings from objective reality about the line.

However, the prediction that ARAH collectors will anchor the line in the future (or collecting so to speak)....how true will this be? Can we see an analog in 12" collectors, or is that a false comparison?

Anyone in the 12" camp that can tell us how it has carried on?

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Oh, it is there alright. The 12" market hasn't faded, it just went to a different market. While the club's show has started sliding more toward the 1/18 scale crowd most other shows I've been too still heavily favor the 12" crowd. Hasbro might not have been making 12" stuff the last couple of years but several other companies have been. Now Hasbro si bringing the 12" figures back. If Hasbro's product is as good as it looks online, then the 12" fans and occasional 1/18 scale fans will support it.

I can't predict the future but I can say if the 25th style keep going as strong as they are they will be aroudn for a long while. And a lot of those figures are good enough to replace their ARAH counterparts. Not that everyone will start ditching their RAH figures. Just like not everyone will dig the 25th. I think that will be good for everyone though as their will be plenty of both to go around. 25th in the stores and RAH on ebay as some people dump their collections.

As for my regret with the ARAH figures, I bought too much of the modern era army builders. First I'm not an army builder. 2, 3, maybe 5 of a favorite viper or something but that's it. Anymore and it is too much for me to handle to set up, arm, and play with or photoshoot. Second, I'm not a completionist. I don't even like a lot of the figures that were made but I found myself keeping army builder figures I didn't like just because. I like the original Viper ok, but it isn't a favorite or anything. So I had to ask myself why I had 3 Viper Pit sets. There just isn't any need for me to have that many of that figure.

To be honest when comparing the original Viper to the Viper Pit Viper I have to lean more towards the original. I never had to trim the original's crotch so he could move his legs and torso properly. I never had to trim the neck ball so he didn't hold his head like he was moping and I certainly didn't have to find Marauder weapons back in the day to give him a decent weapon to hold. I like that set and it was one of the better ones, but I think a lot of people given a choice between the original and the remake for the same price would scoop up the original in a heart beat.

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Good job, Taber, you woke up Trekker!

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As opposed to...?

Conversely I think that a lot of collectors are too quick to dismiss non-ARAH Joes based on the fact that "They're no ARAH". These figures stand on their own merits and even those that are based on classic ARAH designs surpass the level of detail and sculpting that Hasbro was able to produce in the 1980s. I hear a lot of derision by long time collectors towards those who pass by the older figures in favor of "the new wunderkind" and frankly it's not a fair comparison for either side. Both are great for their own reasons and both have their problems. I see no distinction between those who seek out the rarities of the Joe world and the guy who only buys new stuff. Both are enjoying the hobby in their own way.

As for 10 years: We'll see. I know a lot of guys who have sold off their ARAH collections too and I think it's ludicris to assume that ARAH fans are any more hardcore than those who came later.. I think in 10 years the community will be much as it is now and those kids who grew up with the 25th figures will be seeking those gold headed Destros and yellow Stalkers with a fervor equal to that of the people who search out gold headed Steel Brigades today.

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Hrm.

Maybe for me that Hasbro didn't do a RAH style Torch and Mindbender since 2000. We're getting a MC Gristle(!), but we don't have a new over the top RAH style Cobra mad scientist, nor do we have the final component of the original Dreadnok Trilogy.


bearcatcc

Torch molds were probably lost, I'd wager, but yeah, a RAH Torch in the more recent years would've been nice. Maybe especially since my original one has the worst case of "elbow cracks" of anybody in my collection...

I too have noticed several people tossing off the ARAH in favor of 25th and I just scratch my head since its obvious no matter what ARAH got alot of them to the dance and 25th is still just begining. If the line was a few years old I might understand (but not agree still).



True but some people just won't like things no matter what, its a matter of taste. Still when the new sculpts were out it was alot worse than I have seen it now. Even on other boards so I am not complaining about the division since its staying civil.



You know what is funny that is the exact same thing people said about new sculpt. But I do have to say that I doubt Yellow Stalker will ever reach the point of Gold Steel Brigade. If you mean Gold PDD, that is possible (even though I hate the fig) but if you mean IG regular retail Destro I have to disagree.

But my point was (to everyone making predictions) is that this community has changed alot in the 6 years I have been in it. I know some of the history from a few years before that and I have to say it changed drasticly. I doubt it will be the same in ten years though. Change (like death) is inevitable

Zed if you get bored, I'd love to read a recap of what you've observed in collecting the past few years in the fandom...

Just an FYI

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You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for being fair and balanced in your assessment.

Each style of Joe releases has its own strengths and weaknesses. As a collector base, we all might do well to remember that.

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This is absolutely correct. Until the 25th dropped and turned the Joe world on its ear, far too many collectors turned their noses up at the new sculpts unfairly simply because they were not ARAH. Yes there were a lot of crappy new sculpts, and I simply didn't purchase those. But there were also a lot of well-done figures in that format which I count among my favorites today.

I've no ARAH regrets. I am a strong proponent of the 2000-2001 figures, i like the better NS figures, and I love the 25th.

I have no regrets, because it is out of my control...

The ARAH comic 3-packs were great to me. It was my chance to upgrade original figures with better quality and better heads. Now that that is over I have nothing. I don't collect the 25th so I am stuck.

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"But, I don't think consumers would much care if the molds were new or old as long as the packaging and presentation of major characters in their classic look was there."

--Mike T.

I tend to agree with you, Mike, but on this point I just can't see eye-to-eye.

I think the basic GI Joe fanbase would have eaten up ARAH-style figures in classic packaging on the shelves. But it wouldn't have struck the weird crossover nerve that the 25th line has.

I frequent some other boards, and it's clear that the 25th Joes are a big deal among Transformers, Vinyl and Star Wars guys in a way that the VvV figures never were. A lot of these fans haven't bought a GI Joe since the 80s.

I think the packaging is clearly a big motivator in moving product off the shelves, but when comparing singles to comic packs or box sets, you have to keep price point in mind, as well.

Until recently, the singles averaged about $6. The comic packs were $10 and the box sets were a (rather expensive) $25.

When you're talking pricing, it's all psychology, and I think by breaking the $20 price point the box sets failed.

Hasbro seems to have thought so as well. The new vehicles are below $20, and the DVD packs are pushing the fact that they come with a movie to make their flat $20 tag worthwhile.

GI Joe is still a bargain brand that absolutely will not move at high price points in the way that Transformers or Star Wars routinely does.

On construction style: I still love my ARAH figures, still hate the VvV, etc. era and I absolutely love the 25th line. I think the thing that is selling collectors on the 25th line is the creative styling and articulation. What's selling kids? The characters and the designs (plus cool army man for cheap = awesome).

That's something that Hasbro missed massively in the "new sculpt" era. Very few of the figures improved on the construction of the 80s. And with big plastic rivets, the proportions were worse. Instead of being able to look at those figures from afar and think they were real soldiers in the field (which can be done with ARAH and 25th) they looked like toys.

That's fine if you've got a cartoon attached to it, but since the GI Joe brand was adrift without media for most of that time period, those figures had a hard time finding traction. When they did, it was when Hasbro got everything right (Spytroops Wave 1, the last VvV wave, etc.).

The best waves of the new sculpt era had a mix of colors, designs and specialties with cool new accessories. The worst had same-same decos with decades-old accessories.

The 25th Anniversary line, so far, has hit all the high notes with each wave of singles. The misses have occurred in the comic packs and box sets (Cobra Legions is good for the fans, but I don't see kids wanting a full pack of Cobras. Random toy guys don't want figures in decos they don't recognize).