Post real life pics of the vehicles that may have inspired the Joe Vehicles we know and love.
The Conquest X30 seems to have been based on the Experimental Russian SU-47.
Your turn.
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| Author: | raptor [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
Post real life pics of the vehicles that may have inspired the Joe Vehicles we know and love. The Conquest X30 seems to have been based on the Experimental Russian SU-47. Your turn. |
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| Author: | DarkJedi [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
raptor wrote: Post real life pics of the vehicles that may have inspired the Joe Vehicles we know and love. The Conquest X30 seems to have been based on the Experimental Russian SU-47. Your turn. I was under the impression it was based on the X-29... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_X-29 |
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| Author: | Dusty79 [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
I think the Conquest might predate the Russian SU-47, in which case they copied the Conquest! |
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| Author: | DanOfTheDead [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
I've always been curious as to what the advantage of the reversed wing angles is in aircraft design... Looks like the Conquest takes some elements of both of these, though the name is a pretty obvious connection to the X-29. |
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| Author: | Dusty79 [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
I think forward swept wings are about maneuverability, but I'm no aerospace engineer so I may be wrong |
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| Author: | ronin [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
DarkJedi wrote: raptor wrote: Post real life pics of the vehicles that may have inspired the Joe Vehicles we know and love. The Conquest X30 seems to have been based on the Experimental Russian SU-47. Your turn. I was under the impression it was based on the X-29... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_X-29 DJ is right. I remember reading a reference that the X30 is based on the X29. This was a few years before the SU-47 was developed which primarily copied the X29 concept. Both airframes look cool though. |
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| Author: | Wowboy [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
Dusty79 wrote: I think forward swept wings are about maneuverability, but I'm no aerospace engineer so I may be wrong One of the many hats I have worn is that of Aerospace Engineer, and I have a bit of experience in Flight Controls with the topic of forward swept wings having come up in some of the seminars I've sat in on. I won't bore you with the math, but basically forward swept wings provide exponentially more lift than their rear swept traditional counterparts. This provides a significantly steeper angle of attack for a fighter, providing the forward-swept wing style a significant advantage over a traditional fighter. The downside is that there is a significant amount of increased stress placed on the structural integrity of the wings, requiring a thicker wing, which in turn reduces the aircraft's critical mach number. To put it more simply, a forward swept fighter can get a tactical advantage by getting higher, but the traditional craft can fly so much faster that the advantage is not worth it. However, this all changed when the X-29 was outfitted with wings made of space age composites. This provided a bit of "give" to the wings so they could be thinner and still stand up to the increased stress of the greater lift provided by the forward swept design. It was so successful that I once heard Dr. Jan Roskam (Flight Controls Guru) state that the forward-swept wing design was magic. However, none of this data was compiled in time to significantly influence the fifth generation fighters' design. |
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| Author: | DanOfTheDead [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
Wowboy wrote: Dusty79 wrote: I think forward swept wings are about maneuverability, but I'm no aerospace engineer so I may be wrong One of the many hats I have worn is that of Aerospace Engineer, and I have a bit of experience in Flight Controls with the topic of forward swept wings having come up in some of the seminars I've sat in on. I won't bore you with the math, but basically forward swept wings provide exponentially more lift than their rear swept traditional counterparts. This provides a significantly steeper angle of attack for a fighter, providing the forward-swept wing style a significant advantage over a traditional fighter. The downside is that there is a significant amount of increased stress placed on the structural integrity of the wings, requiring a thicker wing, which in turn reduces the aircraft's critical mach number. To put it more simply, a forward swept fighter can get a tactical advantage by getting higher, but the traditional craft can fly so much faster that the advantage is not worth it. However, this all changed when the X-29 was outfitted with wings made of space age composites. This provided a bit of "give" to the wings so they could be thinner and still stand up to the increased stress of the greater lift provided by the forward swept design. It was so successful that I once heard Dr. Jan Roskam (Flight Controls Guru) state that the forward-swept wing design was magic. However, none of this data was compiled in time to significantly influence the fifth generation fighters' design. Great explanation, really helpful. Is it possible future generations of fighters (or drones) will return to this concept? |
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| Author: | Wowboy [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
DanOfTheDead wrote: Great explanation, really helpful. Is it possible future generations of fighters (or drones) will return to this concept? It is possible, but keep in mind that pure dogfighters are starting to go the way of the dodo. The forces are evolving to demand more multirole aircraft that can be built more cheaply. This is the reason why the Air Force ordered more F-35s than F-22s. |
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| Author: | raptor [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
Wowboy wrote: DanOfTheDead wrote: Great explanation, really helpful. Is it possible future generations of fighters (or drones) will return to this concept? It is possible, but keep in mind that pure dogfighters are starting to go the way of the dodo. The forces are evolving to demand more multirole aircraft that can be built more cheaply. This is the reason why the Air Force ordered more F-35s than F-22s. Approach Horizon. Shoot missile. Software battles software. Go home and drink a beer. Assuming that you even left home in the first place... - R |
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| Author: | AdrienVeidt [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
I recall an article from the 80s that said having one forward and one rearward wing gave the plane maximum possible maneuverability. Something about chaotic airflow always putting the plane on the verge of stalling, or something. Forgive my memory, but that article was many years and beers ago. |
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| Author: | Lance Sputnik [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
That x-29 looks more like a Condor to me. |
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| Author: | Otto the Otter [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
There was a German plane from the 80s similar to a Gulfstream that had forward swept wings. Obviously not a fighter, but I think it's advantage was the greater lift with smaller wings. Obviously it never caught on since planes still have traditional type wings. That Bercut is just one evil looking plane. I remember watching a documentary about the future of fighter aircraft and it had a few scenarios. One was a B-1 Lancer on a bombing run, and a few MiG-29 came by to harass it. A flight of F-22s came in and shot down the MiG-29s before they could even see the planes. The F-22s escorted the Lancer and suddenly one was shot down and the had no idea where it came from. Some of those Sukois were loitering around and got the drop on the F-22s. They're not stealth like the F-22s, but they're still sneaky as heck. |
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| Author: | fat_kids_joes [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
The one that always makes me shake my head is the thunder clap. It's based off the m65 atomic cannon aka "Atomic Annie" http://youtu.be/P2RO6lo84Hc http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_Atomic_Cannon |
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| Author: | DREMEL [ Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monday: Interesting Joe Vehicle Origins |
Everyone knows it but in case someone isnt aware the Vamp was made from the Lamborghini Cheetah. http://www.lambocars.com/images/off_roa ... tah11.html |
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