I am starting this thread to discuss just how viable everyone TRULY thinks the future of G.I. Joe is. I am not trying to start arguments, just want genuine opinions about what people think will happen. I realize it is all speculation but I think we all have history to draw upon so I want to hear everyones thoughts.

I'll start off by saying I am a RAH fan. I know people refer to them as melon heads and praise the 25A stuff but the RAH is what I grew up with and just from my point of view I think the proportions are good and the articulation is great too. Very playable but of course there are flaws. I also think the more articulation that is packed onto a figure, the more chances of flaws and breakage.

The 12 inch Joes had a nice long run before they were retired. Not sure of the exact time but I am thinking 10-12 years in various incarnations? They were great fun for the people who grew up with them and had tons of great accessories.

RAH lasted a whopping 12 years. The figures were a revelation for a lot of kids. They had tons of great weapons and accessories, a cool comic book, a cartoon and lest we forget, the great vehicles that were generally decently priced and affordable for most parents and kids with allowances and birthday money.

During this time they re-released the 12 inch figures and started a boom for that style of figures again. But as with all things, they petered out.

Sgt. Savage and GI Joe Extreme are just a blip on the radar, poorly thought out, poorly done for the most part and not at all popular. Although Sgt. Savage did have that cool little black tank going for it.

The re-release of RAH was a 4 year deal. Old sculpts, new plastics, thumb breakage was down, still had the O-ring and lots of RAH fans getting nostalgic and in a position to buy up childhood memories. Also had odd flesh tones and weird names for characters we all knew and loved. But it did give us Big Brawler so it can't be all bad.

New sculpt lasted roughly 3 years. T-waists to start then switch to O-ring. Rehash of RAH vehicles and some very badly reworked vehicles from other Hasbro lines. Also had a comic book to pull on and generate interest.

Sigma Six was another blip that released some stuff that was cool to collectors. But didn't contribute a lot to the line and didn't grab kids attention.

Now we have 25A. Old characters in new form. Lots of articulation, tons of great accessories. Cool upcoming vehicles, new comic book on the horizon. And of course the movie that is looming large with Marlon Wayans as Ripcord.


But I do wonder, how much longer will we see 25A/G.I. Joe? There is a lot of excitement among the Joe collecting community about them. Excited sightings of new waves and complaints about empty pegs and peg warmers. Empty pegs means that the figures are being bought up as soon as they hit the shelves. Empty pegs also mean that some stores are not re-ordering figures. Peg warmers mean that the collectors are only willing to buy so many of a certain type of figure. Peg warmers mean that once the collectors have gotten their fill of a new wave, the remainder is left to sit and gather dust.

Peg Warmers also mean that kids aren't that into the figures. It can also mean that the cool figures kids might want aren't there for them to get ahold of and buy because collectors or scalpers were there. Most likely scalpers because I am assuming good collectors leave something behind for others.

I just have to ask.....If Hasbro can't get kids attention with this new line, how long can it possibly last? Collectors apparently aren't a big enough financial base for the line to thrive, otherwise Hasbro would just continue the DTC idea and maybe sign an exclusive deal with a major chain so that collectors would know just where the figures were.

I know the line will continue through at least until the movie hits theaters. If it is a hit across the board then kids will be clamoring for the toys and G.I. Joe will live on. But if the movie is a flop? How long does it last?

As I stated earlier, I am not a fan of 25A but I want to see it do well if only for the vehicles it will spawn and the possibility of more re-releases of RAH for us old fogeys who don't like the new styles of Joes. Someone told me that Hasbro has said that the 25A is it, the only style they will release from now on but I have hope. They have the RAH molds and I am assuming that this time around they are not going to lose them or destroy them as they did with the majority of the molds from 82-94.

It just seems to me that since the death of the line in 94, none of the attempts to kick start it have worked. None of them have captured the hearts of the kids who can cajole mom or dad into spending huge sums of cash for them. So do you really think this time will be different? Not hope, but think. If so, what exactly makes you think it will be different this time? Just because you think the line is cool, doesn't mean it will stick around. What is Hasbro saying or doing to make us think that they are fully committed to doing this thing? Will they be willing to weather some low sales as the initial thrill wears off?

I am sorry this was so long and I hope if you read it all you will weigh in and give your thoughts.

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I really think all of our talk over the past year has led up to this question. I think Hasbro sees Joe as not viable in the long term. Though it has been successful in the past, nothing has caused it to really take off again. Hence the reason for the movie – a new way to get mass attention for Joe and kids back in.

We shall see if it works.

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To sum it up, I remember people asking this question back in 96, 97, and 98. When the Toys R Us exclusives started to wrap up, everyone thought that was the end of it. Then the 2 packs came out and everyone was going wild for them. Toward the end of that everyone was questioning if that was it. But then there were the new sculpts which of course had lots of people wondering how it's possible for those to carry the line. They re did the hip articulation and went back to O rings. That carried the line for a while and again people questioned if that was it. Then DTC happened and it had the same results. Now here we are with 25th Anniversary figures.

My guess is, until Hasbro really digs their heals in, it'll keep on going up and down for a long time. Maybe the movie will finally be what Hasbro needs to focus on the product, maybe not. It'll take the focus they show the other lines they offer to get the popularity going. Will it ever be like the 80s? No, I doubt anything will ever get that level of popularity again. Marketing is different and kid's view the products different than we did. It can gain a lot of popularity and become one of the top toys again, but that's still something Hasbro is going to have to gain focus on to do.

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I think the newsculpt period was more like 6 years than just 3, fwiw.

I wonder what the comparitive sales numbers were like between the original 12" Joes and RAH, adjusted for inflation. I'm betting RAH was more profitable for Hasbro; and I'd bet a very large portion of that success was directly related to the media tie-ins of the comics and toons. The lack of these things (or actual promotion of the DDP comic to be precise) were factors in the apparent lackluster sales of JvC stuff.

If a cartoon doesn't spin out of this Joe flick, regardless of how successful the movie will be, Hasbro's shooting themselves in the foot. Again.

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I'd say product having an inability to stay on the shelves makes it plenty viable.

Most modern toy lines go through hot cycles due to movies and what not, starwars is a good example of a toy that warms up with a new movie. when episode three hit you could hardly find anything on the shelves, now that that is long and over both my target and my walmart are packed with starwars toys, not just peg warmers either there are nice legions of troops sitting on the shelf.

GI Joe is a brand that is synonymous with boys toy. In some form or another Joe will be around for ever. Unfortunately hasbro has drug it's feet in the licensing dept. they should have already been doing movie, and they should have a steady supply of video games all pushing their licensed characters, instead they pay licenses for products that don't sell as well. How many stores are still flooded with spidey toys? In the future we may not be buying joes in any way familiar to what we get today, but they'll always be around in some form as long as hasbro exists.

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GI Joe as a brand has a clear nostalgic tie to the past and a lot of brand recognition. The problem is that sales have clearly been unpredictable for the past few years.

That's why you don't see Joe merch all over the place.

Now will the 25th anniversary line build up enough interest for the movie line to succeed regardless the quality of the movie? I don't know.

I think if the movie tanks (it's really not as solid of a concept as Transformers) then Hasbro could very well be back to the drawing board.

But it's one of their core brands, so they'll never let it die completely.

Well, I tend to think of RAH as having lasted well beyond 12 years. Technically, that figure format ran through 1997-98, 2000-2002, and continued to some degree (Comic packs, TRU multi-packs, etc) all the way through the newsculpt era right up to the 25A-style. Technically, it STILL continues, if one counts the Club offerings, which I do.

However, the original Real American Hero line did have a rather specific twelve-year run.

Sgt. Savage, and for that matter G.I.Joe Extreme, I'd be less inclined to describe as a blip and more as a fart. However, I do agree that that black tank was cool -- and looks even better with Cobra logos on it. I also rather liked the plane.

I won't get into the occasional bashing that is being levied against the original RAH line by some who now declare a distinct preference for the 25A-style figures. My own bias would show through if I did. However, I will say this -- if it wasn't for the multi-decade success of the "melon-heads" or whatever... ... the 25th Anniversary line never would've happened.

(Same argument I used on certain 12" afficianados who loudly hailed the return of the 12" G.I.Joes years ago and hoped it would spell an end to "those pathetic little guys". If it hadn't been for the success of the "little guys", the big guys never would've come back. Granted, if it hadn't been for the success of the original big guys, I doubt we ever would've seen the little guys, but this is getting monotonous...)

As to the future? There's a few vehicles in the year ahead that I might like, but as to the concept as a whole, I think that is almost ENTIRELY dependent on the success of the movie. I am sure there will be a massive blitz of movie-based G.I.Joe product next year, with Hasbro hoping that it will be at least as successful as Transformers.

I'm not as certain. Transformers, although it has undergone a number of conceptual overhauls over the past several years, has remained a fairly consistent toy product, and one of the most popular out there. The movie took a toy concept that was doing well and sent it right into the stratosphere. The matter is different with G.I.Joe. Although the 25th Anniversary line has garnered some attention, I think that any of us would have to agree that G.I.Joe is not what it used to be by any definition, nor has it been as popular as Transformers for years, just based on the amount of shelf space it has -- and is -- being granted in toy stores and toy departments.

I think the future of G.I.Joe is riding very heavily on the success of the movie. I am personally quite skeptical about the movie, but then, I'm skeptical about MOST movies that are based on pre-existing properties. We'll see what happens.

Joe is slated to become a "lifestyle brand". Think Spiderman. The figures may come and go, but all the money is going to be made off movies, video games and tie ins.

More figures will be sold in fast food restaurants from the movie tie ins than anything sold in TRU in the last 7 years.

Joe is now a brand and a marketable idea, more than just the figures, and they are going to milk it and drain it dry for at least the next 7 years.

- R

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I think 25A is the last hurrah for old school design Joes. The new body style is the new standard, and they're giving us all our old favorites before the movie completely reinvents the line and brings it into the new century. Thats my guess but Ive been wrong before.

Some really logical ideas have been brought up so far, most that I agree with.

From a retail stand-point, I can see Joes lasting as long as they can stay away from the clearance aisle. Though I hate to say it, most of my custom fodder came from new-sculpt clearance markdowns.

From a collector's stand-point: Give us variety, and we'll keep buying. Variety of the characters, and variety of parts used. Though I understand the whole production costs and molds and casting aren't cheap, but I like my figs to hold their own as that character. Re-use parts in a way that I don't really realize it's reused (i.e. 25th Wild-Bill).

Star Wars rebooted in 1995 and is still going. The figures, in my opinion, have gotten better as far as likeness and articulation. My hopes that Joe will do the same. Lord knows the actual figure count out there from the original line and all the international releases. Tons of potential if it is done the right way.

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The scarier question is: how long can they keep selling to us, the collectors, before it gets unprofitable? I sure hope 25th is doing gangbusters.

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ARAH-I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone on this board that was never a fan since that is what got us here. But some people think there have been improvements while others don't. I personally think there have been strides in many areas while not many in others and honestly no one style is the be all end all. Some figures come out of this with a massive level of improvement (Beachead is my fav example of a 25th figure who really finally got his due). While others fall short (Duke) but have perfectly viable figures in other styles.

New sculpt (2002 with JVC-2006 with DTC so basicly it was 4 years and none of you got it right ) really caused alot of problems with some glaring issues of scale, production, articulation and tons of other issues. They honeslty were doomed the day they came out with no o-rings I think. As I said then, I want a Ninja that can side kick, that is my issue with T-crotches. From there the causual fan was excluded cause they didn't look at the two packs again at all. Without that extra support it was us carring the line and that isn't enough.

However one thing you did forget to mention is my big gripe that hasbro has told us is the issue with empty pegs, distribution. Now from what we are told the stores distribution is to blame, yet it is only GI Joe (Transformers, Marvel Legends, and Star Wars don't seem to have this issue somehow, yet same company in the same store, BTW stores are ordering, just not recieveing, ran into this as well). Now this is effecting Multiple stores (Wal-mart, K-mart ect) with no resolution is sight. Some of the product is getting out, but aparently Stuff like hard to find Star Wars figures have priority since I can find them easily but barely am able to find Joes.

OK I am venting yet again from a fruitless search of the stores where I live, another one in a long line since this line started of only ONCE finding 25th at retail. Yet the same company can get SW, and all the other hard to find figures out to my local stores (I was able to see Arcee when she was a hard to find figure, before her re-release recently I mean, but no Joes whatsoever).

Most of my 25th have come from online, and I hate shopping online alot. Still it had to be done.

Zed I completely agree with your distribution comment, GI JOE hits the shelves and then promptly leaves it. Even wave 2 and 3 of 07 they show up and they're gone, even the peg warmers eventually leave.

on the other hand I have Power rangers, ninja turtles and most notably wrestlers are clogging pegs and not moving at all. what I don't get is why don't they put things on sell. If you have toys that are over two year old mark them 50% off.

Spiderman has a notable peg presence as well. though not as bad as the wrestlers. Marvel in general never gets much of a restock, with mostly non selling items from last year filling pegs. Overall I'd say GI Joe 25th's lack of an ability to stay on the shelves should be saying something about it's longevity. Even Sigma 6 was selling better then most of this stuff.

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I think that Joe was so popular back in the 80's because of the times we lived in. Ronald Reagan, the Iron Curtain, America standing strong and fighting off the evil communist hordes, yada yada yada. It was a different time, a different world. Nuclear annihilation loomed in the background. G.I. Joe was battling Cobra but in a lot of ways they were fighting the Soviets. We were all part of that, grew up in it. Wanted to fight those battles. So we wanted Joes, wanted Cobras. Christmas, birthdays, allowances, odd jobs. Anything to get some Joes and Cobras.

But nowadays kids don't have an ever present threat. China? Maybe a stronger world power than the Soviet Union ever was but they are also adopting to free trade and capitalism in ways the USSR never did. Osama Bin Laden and his ilk? No one really sees them as a dire threat to our continued existence.

So kids don't have a built in already made enemy of America that Cobra can represent like we did.

And really, could or would Hasbro release a terrorist action figure that was obviously modelled on middle eastern terrorist groups? Not likely. We're too politically correct for that. We're kinder and gentler. Hasbro wouldn't do it and if they did, they'd be sued by a thousand groups. Same if they tried to release chinese based soldiers.

Maybe that was why Hasbro tried to go into space at the end of the line? They couldn't afford to insult any particular group of people.

The new releases are still trading on OUR memories, OUR youth. But just how appealing is that really to the youth of today who really don't see that any country in the world is a danger to us?

Heck the kids of today think the global climate is a bigger threat than any one country. And how can G.I. Joe fight the environment? They'd have to be some kind of Eco-Warriors or something.

Ah well maybe this time around Hasbro has a master plan in mind? Or maybe they are just trying to resurrect one of their key franchises and milk it for a few million more dollars once again?

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Amen to that! I noticed that only Gi Joe seems to have a ton of empty pegs, yet curiously no other Hasbro toy line is affected by this syndrome.

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