1st, let me say hello to everybody here, this is my very 1st post here & I'm glad to be a part of the JoeCustoms community.

Now to my question:

I've noticed there are fans of both Duke & Hawk, & it seems that some folks actually hate one while they love the other. I figure it's due to Duke being "the man" in the cartoon while Hawk was "the man" in the comic. I love the cartoon for what it is & it's ties to my childhood, but I love the (Marvel) comic so much more.

Even though I'm on the comic side o' things, Duke is still my favorite. I base that on, Duke being the "man of action" that he is. He was tough in the cartoon, tough in the comic, I dig his original design, (tan & olive drab fatigues like the WWII Airborne Rangers,) his accessories were great & his filecards are very impressive. A man who leads by example, who wouldn't ask some one to do something he isn't willing to do himself.

I don't hate any 'Joes, I like Hawk a lot, but Duke is my favorite.

They both have a place for me. They both have lead from the front lines types of personalities.

Hawk is my team CO and Duke is his first shirt.

I prefer Hawk all around though, the bomber jacket on Hawk v2 sealed the deal for me.

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first off, welcome to Joecustoms!

as for your quetsion: I have to agree with Danielb. Duke may be the top seargent, but Hawk runs the show. and I agree, once he came out with the bomber jacket figue, THAT became my difinitive Hawk, especially in the comic pack colors.

Duke to me seemed a bit to "cookie cutter' hero to me. I mean, with some slight costume tweaks, he's :Captain America, He-Man, Matt Tracker....

Hawk is a bit more specific, especially his comic version. Even the early versions were a bit gruff.

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Hawk has always been the leader for me, and Duke has been the Top NCO. What ruined Duke for me was the cartoon and subsequent portrayals of him as being the end-all, beat-all of JoeDom (other than Snake-Eyes, that is )

The way Duke was shown in the comics -- especially the early run (Marvel 22-50ish) is how I view Duke in my "JoeVerse". Unfortunately, I don't see him that way in any other media.

So my hatred of Duke stems from the way they've screwed up what was originally a pretty cool character, rather than Duke himself (not his fault they turned him into a douche.)


Welcome to the boards!

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Welcome to the boards.

For me, Hawk is the guy that earned his rank. Duke is the guy Hasbro "gave" it to.

I know I've said this elsewhere, but I see Duke as the "manager from corporate." You know the kind: clean cut, clothes pressed, does everything by the book, has a creepy kind of gusto about the company, its mission statement, its slogans--almost as if he's a robot.

Maybe I've just got a thing against authority, but I can imagine Duke getting fragged by his own squad. It's the smile, you know. That cheesy smile. That's the kind of smile that's going to get a lot of Joes killed.

Duke: fear him.

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Welcome to the boards.

I didn't discover the comics until later but, once I did, I was a big fan of Hawk. Before then, I was a Duke booster.

Once I started writing my own dios, I made it part of my personal mission to find a way for these two important leader characters to work together. And, in order to do that, I found I needed to give both characters a bit more depth than I was used to them having.

As it turns out, most of that added depth, most of the layers I needed to add beneath the surface, for both characters was baggage or flaws.

I made Duke less charismatic...less able to charm and relate to his fellow Joes. He's all about the mission, to the exclusion of all else, and it makes him a bit of an a-hole. And he knows this about himself. This is actually what holds him back from being an officer, more than his on-the-surface objection., He honestly doesn't know if he can inspire the loyalty in his men that he thinks he'd need for them to follow his orders. And I gave him some deeper darkness...some personal demons...that he'll need to work out before he can even begin to address the "works-and-plays-well-with-others thing. In mshort, he needs a Hawk to tell him what the mission is...to give him, direction.

And Hawk I made less of a goody goody. In the comics, he always seemed like he would walk the straight and narrow, regardless of what it meant to the mission overall. He seemed like the kind of commander who would put the safety of his men and civilians above all else and, frankly, I didn't see how a guy like that could effectively command a team that does what the Joes need to do. So I beefed up his Intel/black ops background and made him very capable of bending or breaking the rules when he needs to. I also made him a bit of a manipulator...someone who can get people to do what he wants through subtle plays on psychology or emotion. It works better on some than it does on others (Scarlett, for instance, flat out doesn't like him). And making Hawk a little less morally grounded gave me the opportunity to build up Steeler as his XO (and, therefore, ahead of Duke in the command structure) and something of a surrogate conscience.

I think either character, the way they were both largely represented in their respective media, is a little one-dimensional. So I understand why some wouldn't like one or the other.

Welcome to Joecustoms, hope you enjoy your stay!

The way I look at the Joe universe I have a large, almost Department sized team (around 600 members, PS any of you Military folks want to float me what size group that is I would appreciate it)

My Joe team has a Cabal of Generals lead by Hawk who mastermind the missions which leaves room for many unit commander positions. As such it diffuses the focus away from Just Duke or Just Flint or Just Falcon. It allows each character to drop Capitan America feel and work there way into being more unique.

To me:

Hawk: Been in the game so long he is consumed by it. He is still seen as the high flying col. he once was by his veterans but some of the younger recruits are beginning to question his methods.

Duke: Unit Commander of the Desert Patrol and has been for quite some time. While universally regarded as one of the most talented of the middle management in the Joe ]team many see Duke as that guy who tries too hard. Duke could lead any group but the Desert patrol is a group of soldiers who strive to run by the book, because in the desert anything off the book could be a death wish. Duke's best friend is Dusty and while dusty isn't his right hand man he does tell Duke when he is going too far.

But I guess if I had to Choose I would Say Col Hawk is my favorite, General Hawk has his issues but the Hawk who wrangles the first Joe team together is still one of the coolest comic characters ever!

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Duke.

Not cartoon Duke, not comic Duke, but Filecard Duke.

Hawk who?

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The cartoon protrayal of Duke has pretty much ruined that character for me. The dude is every bit the super soldier that Snake-Eyes is in the comics, only with an arrogant douchebag personality to match. While he was good when written by Larry Hama (Who wasn't though?) I just can't get past my childhood memories of him acting likie a d-bag in the cartoon.

If Duke was here I'd kick him in the junk. And he'd go into a coma and Scarlett would cry. BOO HOO!

Hawk on the other hand was cool in the comics AND the cartoon. So he's my choice.

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I'm ok with either, Flint is the man I always put in charge, though Hawkwould just give the orders ans then Duke would brief the team and Flint would lead them on the battlefield.

Hawk. Duke is dead. If I had zombies take over my universe and Duke came back to life, the other zombies would kill Duke because even they can't stand that (now toothless) grin. I love Hawk. Even neon jetpack mailaway Hawk.

Also, welcome to JC!

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Duke is okay with me as a character. The only thing I really dislike about Duke is that make so darn many Duke toys.

In Sigma Six it looked like Attack of the Clones because Duke had to be there doing everything. Need a diver, it's Duke, need an experimental jet pack, it's Duke, need a drain unclogged, I'm sure there was a Duke figure for that as well.

Even in the 25th Duke seems to keep cropping up only this time without a change of clothes. Oh and people don't like the Duke style arms so the character gets blamed for that a good deal as you read post complaining about the Duke arms being used again.

Thanks everybody for the warm welcomes.
I really appreciate that.

It's cool to see all o' your points o' view on these characters.
I too like the '86 Hawk figure. I painted his hair blond though.

As much as I love them Marvel G.I.*JOE comics, & Larry's personalities he gave each character, I mostly base my judgments & characterization of them on their filecards.

Duke's filecards are always just so impressive, especially his Tiger Force card.

Falcon for example is also one o' my favorite characters, not because of his few appearances in the comics & definitely not 'cause o' his movie appearance but because of his filecard. Plus he's the only Green Beret on the G.I.*JOE team, he's GOTTA be a bad dude.

Thanks again for welcoming me.

Let me first state when I was a child I knew nothing about ranks. I wasn't into comics much either. The only thing I had to go on was the cartoon.
In my early play years Duke was as I knew him. I didn't have the original Hawk was the only one I didn't have at that point. Buy the time Hawk v2 came around I had learned about ranks nco's and officers. I also had the Flagg. Duke was station on the Flagg as the leader of the Joes from his time. Flint was station on the platform. While Hawk had the base wich at the time was only crewed by Breaker, Frostbite, Snowjob Bbq (later transfered to the Flagg because a Skystriker crased) and Airtight.
I think they both are needed so I can't bring myself to say I hate one or the other. If I had to pick one it would be Hawk. Duke can be replaced ( Stalker, Flint, Beachead, Gungho, Roadblock and others). I just can't see Hawk being replaced maybe Gi joe himself but I see him a couple of notches higher then command of the Joe team.

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Based on my name I guess it's obvious who I side with in the Duke vs. Hawk debate.

I read the comics before the cartoons hit and Hawk always seemed in command and knew what he was doing. And he could throw down when he had to.

I never liked the way that Duke was introduced in the comics. I know Hama is a genius and he gave the comics their heart and soul but I think the ball was dropped with the introduction of Duke and Roadblock. The Joes need to be rescued by 2 men? And Duke came in with a high amount of arrogance and bravado, like he was going to make the Joe team better than ever before. I sometimes wonder if LH was given orders by Hasbro as to how Duke was to be introduced.

I like Roadblock now but for years he was tied up with Duke in my mind so for a while I didn't care much for him either.

Hawk is top dog, big cheese, boss of bosses. He commands from the war room and also on the field of battle as well. Duke is a guy who leads a squad or 2 into battle and helps plan missions.

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