who likes an honest crit over a?

Who likes a honest crit of there work ,over ,Hey that looks cool?Nice job.Good work.

My point is,with all the forums and all the members on forums,who wants that honest crit of there figure so they can better there skills or just make cooler customs?

How many people just post to show off work and dont want crits at all?

I dont post my customs,I do them,but for fun,when I have posted got alot of mixed replys,not good not bad just mixed,and only 1 or 2 times did i walk away feeling like maybe I learned something.I look at guys like granslam,sgartz,liveevil,not as involved in the day to day talk on the board,but damn when they do a custom,what an impact.seeing a good custom and knowning how much work went into it,kinda knowing they spent the time working on that custom instead of just surfing the board.

I really like to see the work darko,and cap and chief as of late,there stuff looks great and the direction they have taken has focus,anyway was just wondering what most feel about this are of collecting.

Me I want the good the bad and the ugly,doesnt matter if i agree,bottom line with any custom you make the creative license is yours to do what ya want,but how much of what others say have a impact on your next custom or future customs?

How many people just post to show off work and dont want crits at all?

I go both ways, really.

Some of my stuff I just want my ego stroked--I'm happy with how it is and done all I can, and that's that. In still other cases there is more I want to say about the piece than I can fit in a Gallery submission, so I post it to the board.

And still other times I am looking for other people's takes/ideas on what I've done because I just don't feel the piece is right, or something is missing I'm not seeing, or there's something I've yet to try they might suggest.

I know a lot of people don't agree with the first two ideas. But that's life--you can offer your input and advice, and someone might take it, or they might not. You can't make them, and when it's your turn to be the receiver, you've got all the same options they do.

I do prefer to hear what can be better and where I can improve, and I absolutely have gained from the comments I have recieved (Like a simple thing as using matte coating). And I also have no reservation of telling others what I think of their customs, good or bad.

But there are several reasons why people (probably including me) usually come with positive and "simple" comments to a custom.
- First of all, they are usually good. Nothing to add. What do you expect from this customizer?
- Secondly, if a person posts a custom, he has probably done as best as he can, and why not give him the thumbs up for it?
- If we can see where the custom needs improvement, chances are he can see it too. It's not uncommon to see the customizer point out exactly what you were thinking about the custom.
- And finally, it's possible that many simply don't feel they have the background or skill to point out flaws in other's customs.

Perhaps we should be better at giving critique. I don't think anyone will be offended. But I'm not sure I see the situation as serious as you do. I look at the critique forum, and more often than not, there are some "meaningful" comments. But I also believe that if someone likes the custom and simply wants to let the customizer know, they should give a comment about it.

I also think you are a bit unfair to the countless of people who do post their work here, by mentioning a very few that "has focus". While the ones you mention without a doubt makes some great customs, I see so much inspired work from several others as well. Even work that may lack in quality, usually makes sense on another level. Maybe it was a good idea? Maybe it was the best custom to date from this person? Maybe he used a good combination of colors, even if he missed a spot or two around the knees?

Now, why do people post their customs even if they "lack focus", as you would put it? Maybe to get a validation that what they do is meaningful, even if they don't have the same level of skill as the best customizers. Maybe it is a statement that they do produce customs on a regular basis? Maybe it is to get an appraise on a work they are particularly proud of? Maybe it is to get helpful comments that can help them be better?
Or maybe all of the above?

I have to agree with Doc Rob too. There are usually things you would like to mention, and pictures you would like to show, that doesnt fit in the gallery. The critique forum is the right ehm forum for this.

And when I read this again, I just get annoyed. Are you serious about this statement?

seeing a good custom and knowning how much work went into it,kinda knowing they spent the time working on that custom instead of just surfing the board.

I'm really curious what you actually mean with this. What I read out of it is that you think the best customizers are those who use all their time making customs while keeping silent about it. Furthermore, I get the feeling that you think those active on the forum should apologize for actually posting their customs on the critique forum.
You can't make good customs AND surf the board? Are you envious of those who want a community in addition to simply posting customs? Do you think the "best" customizers use all their time making customs? And most importantly, do you think "lesser customizers" (read: those who are active on the forum) spend time working on their customs too?

I may be wrong - reading too much into it, I do hope I'm wrong, and you are welcome to prove me wrong. But some of your statements are very unfortunate and will probably dissapoint more than me.

Soulgem, you may well be reading too much into this. I have known Dave a couple of years on various boards, and he is a great guy who positively encourages customising. He alo leaves good feedback, including criticisms, for peoples customs.

Personally, I don't mind criticism, as long as it is constructive. I ended up flaming someone on a Star Wars board once after he called someone elses custom vehicle "a load of crap". If I criticise, I always try to give a suggestion on how to improve something.
Often, others can see the flaw in the painting, sculpting or parts choice that we use. I have changed several customs when people have pointed something out.. None of us are perfect. I use criticism to try and improve my customs. I am not too proud to learn from other peoples work, or even copy it for my own collection. For instance, I love iwbeta's 25th Monkeywrench so much, I have ordered an extra Gung Ho to do a version for myself. I feel that that both my sculpting and painting has improved dramatically over the last couple of years. All thanks to other customisers tips, and things like the recent wonderful Custom Celebration on this board. I would never have attempted any softgoods before I read manyof the "how-to" tutorials.

I can understand where you are coming from on this, Dave. Not everyone takes criticism well. I have seen flaming brought about by the questioning of paint or parts choice. I think a lot of it is that the Joe customising community seems to be so tightly knit and friendly, more so than any other community I have encountered online or otherwise, that people feel that they don't want to cause offence to customisers that they know and respect.

I go both ways, really.

SIG'D!!!

Back to the topic on hand, here's my thinking. I post my work to share it with other people. I don't have any friends close enough to show stuff to in person (people that would care anyway, I do have friends ) so I use the forums to just share my work. If people like it and comment then great! If they have ideas that might improve the piece or my work in general, then I'm all ears. Hell I've gotten some pretty good advice just from reading "critiques" of other peoples work so it does have an impact. But myself personally, I don't need that pat on the back or whatever to make me feel good. I just like sharing my work and if someone has something to add that might improve it and I like the idea I'll go with it. Example, on my recent Malcolm Reynolds custom, raptor said he didn't like the way the webgear looked and I kinda agreed so I'm going to try out something different that might work for the figure a little better. Not saying I'm going to go that way but its an honest critique that is helpful without making me feel bad. But its not the thing I'm looking for mostly. When I post a custom its usually finished and the way I want it to be. I might have to finetune the paint to cover some missed spots or something like that but for the most part what you see is the finished product. If I want some advice on something I'll make it known. That's not to say I don't appreciate the comments and compliments, I really truly do. It means a lot to me when someone says they like what I've done and when someone says they are using some of my ideas... well that is truly humbling.

So to answer your question, I myself don't normally post looking for critiques or ego-stroking. I'm just sharing my work and if you guys feel compelled to comment, whether its constructive criticism or just "hey man, nice job" then please feel free to do so. I don't take it personally if I get 20 comments or none at all. Its all about the process for me and the rest is just gravy.

I have no customizing skills. At all. So if I see something I like I'm the type to say" wow that's nice". Some people may get ypset if you criticize the hard work they do, but that is just something people should look past. If the person who created the custom is happy then that is all that matter. I myself have developed a "Do it cause it feels good, and F*** what everyone else thinks" attitude towards life.

I feel I can't critic anyone, because I have no skills. If I like it I post;) I show no favortism to anyone. I think that in general if someone get a negative feedback on a custom, and it upsets them, then why post it? It's not like a career or life choice so suck it up and move on to your next custom(which is a hobby). If someone where to give me negative feedback on say something I have worked on in my house, then I would be upset. My house is an advesment and if joe smoe didn't like it, should I change it for resale? What does this guy even know about construcion?

I I think the online joe community is like this anymore:
Every joe board is a high schools, in the same state we are all blocks or miles away from one another. Every "school" represent there team. Each place has professors and all variities of student, from jocks, geeks, (cept for hot chicks;) ), people who just down right don't like people etc.

I guess posting a custom can be alot like a popularity contest, people who like the customizer may applaud it people who dislike them, may give it a bad critiqiue.

Usually I just post mine to share ideas with everyone else. While I'm always up for a "whoa! that's awesome!", I'm not really here to get my ego stroked. Critiques are always welcome, and I sometimes ask for suggestions if I'm stuck on a part or a certain look that I can't get right. But usually, I just like to "show off" so I can give other folks ideas for their customs. I know I do a lot of "borrowing" from others, so I figure if I can come up with a "hey why didn't I think of that?" for somebody else, then I've made my contribution to the board.

There are a ton of customs that I never post - normally the LBCs that aren't too spectacular, or recipes I've copied from someone else (no point in posting an inferior reproduction of an existing custom, after all.)

And I'm kind of odd in that I criticize the hell out of my own work, but I won't bother to "fix" the problems because I'm a student of the "good enough" school of thought. You'll notice when I post customs I'll usually point out some of my own deficiencies within the narrative, but then follow it with "but it's good enough for me." My customs are played with, not really displayed, so certain issues like paint chips & whatnot take a back seat to playability.

When I critique someone else's work, I tend to give more "attaboys" than actual critiques, but the praise I give is always well-earned. Especially now when I hardly have time to surf the site, let alone post anything, I save my comments for the customs I really like or those for which I can provide some meaningful input. If I see a problem with a custom that hasn't already been addressed, I'll point it out, or use the 'this is how I'd do it" bit.

But for me, while I love getting comments, I'm not a praise-whore. I've noticed that I get the most glowing comments on customs that take me 5 minutes to make (like my 25A Jason Bourne) and ones I spend days creating get a light round of "meh's" . So anymore, I just post stuff that is new & different so that others can get ideas from them (25A Lara Croft, for example.) And besides, I'm kinda burned out on customizing in general for a number of reasons, so I doubt I'll post much in the near future anyway.

I'll take both, and utilize what I can from all of them.

That said, it is one thing to give an honest criticism, another whole matter to just voice opinion because the subject matter doesn't do anything for you. I see quite a bit of those all around, where someone cannot help but say "These things just aren't my bag..", when the question was more about critique than one's personal preference.

After the critiques done in some of the art schools I have attended, where the instructor would take a very large black magic marker and draw a large "X" through the entire work to show his disapproval, internet criticism in retrospect is lightweight.

I love the idea exchange of this place. When someone proposes a custom idea, or a final realized product that is "stealworthy", I think it's great that you can actually tell them, or show them later that their idea inspired your work.

I get the best and worst criticism at home, having married another artisan. Before I can show any piece here or elsewhere, it gets the magnifying glass and grilling by the Mrs(laughing).

I love 'em both. I'm always up for a good "that looks great." And, honestly, who isn't? It's great to hear, especially from people whose work I respect and consider well above mine. But I also like getting suggestions on what should be changed. I am afraid that sometimes my responses to those suggestions get interpreted as flippant, but they're honestly not meant to be; it's usually just me trying to explain why I made the stylistic choice I did at the time. For instance, the spikes on the helmet of my latest Serpentor custom...a lot of people seemed to not like them, and, honestly, I'm not 100% happy with them either. But after trying about ten different embellishments (horns, spikes, fins, a cobra design, etc), it's the one that I thought looked the best. I still appreciate the feedback and suggestions though.

I have, in the past, had a problem with purely negative feedback. In my opinion, if you're going to post a critique, you should offer suggestions on specific ways to improve the custom. When I posted one of my first customs, someone (and I don't remember who) really really didn't like it, and just posted, 'your painting is sloppy your sculpting is bad and it doesn't look like you put much work into it.' Now, yes, I was a beginner, and no, the custom was not my best work, but I DID put a lot of work into it. And, to be honest, it DID upset me a bit to get such a dismissive critique on one of my first tries, and I didn't customize for quite awhile after that, and didn't post another custom for critique for even longer.

I think critiques are definitely a good thing...hell, they're the only way we grow as customizers. They're also a great way to pass on to others what we've learned. But I think it's important to remember that people did put creative time and effort into customs, whether we like the results or not. There's a difference between a critique and just bashing on someone's work. Thankfully, I don't see this around here anymore. I think we are fortunate to have a community of very talented people who are more interested in helping others succeed and expand their skills than puffing up their own egos. I was at a transformers board recently where someone had posted, in my opinion, a very cool Unicron custom (had kind of a steam-punk look to it). Almost every response was some form of "I would never buy that, it looks like crap." It just blew me away, since I couldn't imagine seeing responses like that here, or at gtg, or any of the other joe boards.

Lastly, I was thoroughly surprised to make your list...I consider myself a moderate level customizer at best. And I have to give credit to people like Specter, AdrienVeidt, Dark Horse, JFAK075, iwbeta, Mundo, and countless others whose work I have picked at like a vulture.

Soulgem my man I was not including any certain customizers on purpose just using the ones that stood out to me best.

The point really of the post is I love most custom work I see,and there are many more customizers that i feel have a focus.The focus is they have a drive to make teams,back storys and to show you how they play with there figs in dios.I like to see the guys who take the that extra time and put it into a custom,I think sometimes it just seems that guys who may not be as active sometime in the board as whole seem to really kick out some of the best work IMO.That doesnt mean any body should stop posting,hell i love the community and why i asked as a whole what others felt.

I wouldnt stay involved with GTG if I didnt,GTG just pays for its self,itsmy love for the hobby that is my focus.

Maybe my post came off wrong,I dont think,but to some I guess it did.I wanted to know how important honest crits were to everybody,I know me I would rather get an honest hey man just not feeling that,and maybe 6 others say the same thing it will help me grow as a customizer,and others who may be just starting out.

Darko I dont have a list but did list some examples i look at all customs as a form of art and each artist has his own level of talent,And if we as the collective can make people better isnt that what crit are for? I just feel sometimes time is the biggest factor why crits are done more.To give the best example of something ,Alyosha posts his work on many boards,he doesnt want crits,perfers not to get it,but then he as a poster gives a crit,how does that make ya feel as a the creator of the custom? Now I am buddys with aly and I know he doesnt post here any more but Just throwing a good example of something. as a customizer would you be offended that he can give a crit but not take one? rule out the name now,lets not get into the Aly bash,its just an example of a what if?

Now, why do people post their customs even if they "lack focus", as you would put it?

Now I didnt say they didnt have focus to all others,just listing a small example of who i think had a focus,like the fantasy themed customs,its a focus a direction.sorry if you read that different and maybe i needed to be more clear.All customs and all customizers i take my hat off to,for effort alone,How well they did what they set out to do,is another whole matter.But if someone had a great idea and the finshed result was just missing something,I know if I was that person i would want the low down at what could make it better and put it over as an even better custom.

Critiquing someone elses work is a tricky business at times.

First the person is asking for thoughts on something they have invested time and a part of their personality into.

Can someone honestly look at all the feedback (pro or con) and not feel emotion? Can they take that step back and say, "OK, I gotta work on it a little more?"

It shouldn't be taken as a personal attack. I know there was a NJC entry a while back that I posted comments on. I think it was a Deathstroke custom. I said the head reminded me of Spider-Man more so than Deathstroke. The customizer didn't appreciate those comments. Even though there was some unique applications (sand?) to make the torso look like armor (which I didn't see), the head really threw me off. I looked at the pics again and still felt the head was too Spider-Man-ish.

Second I feel weird posting comments at times because I've only submitted a few pics to the Critique section (some Oktober Guard LBCs), so part of me feels I have no right to say anything because I haven't earned that right by actually submitting stuff. Crazy, but everybody can be a critic, but not everyone actually DOES the stuff that is being critiqued. I DO appreciate the efforts and skills that others have. You're actually posting stuff and I give you all the credit for that.

Third is I don't just post something and submit it. I read over anything I write to make sure I am being positive in my words and not stating anything that could be taken as a personal attack. I may say I don't like it for whatever reason, but again what do I know? I haven't submitted anything.

///Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I don't appreciate you actually doing the custom///

I have stated I don't like the 25th style of figures, from a design POV. However I have seen some spectacular 25th customs I like.

Fourth I hope that others don't take offense when I say something like, "Lock the category. No further customs of the figure will be accepted. The perfect representation of the character has been achieved."

I have used this a few times for some of LIVEVIL's customs (Roadblock and Spirit). These customs have literally knocked me out of the chair, made such an impression on me, and have made me seriously doubt my own skills in the span of seconds. I just want to because I like them so much.

There are others too, but his are the two I can think of right now.

Fifth I guess for myself I have to remember to be positive when being a critic. I recently told Mysterious Stranger the color choice of a boat seemed to bright to me. I racked my brain trying to come up with a solution and when I did I still felt I was too negative. I guess in the end I think everyone should remember each custom is an investment.

Whether it is time, skill, a creative process, the need to share, or simply the joy of doing something hands on-this is something that people enjoy doing. Everyone wants their efforts to be well received and liked. I would hope that everyone would also want to know that someone elses view might offer an improvement and a means of making said custom really shine that much better.

Since we all have different skills, POVs, expereiences, and what not, I think if we are respectful and offer suggestions that are positive options then we shouldn't have any issues.

Maybe we need to add certain key words so that everyone knows what someone is expecting in the critique?

Would everyone understand 'WIP' (Work In Progress) means it is a rough version that is still in the planning stages and is in no way final?

Would everyone understand 'RTC' (Ready To Critique) means the item is almost completed and the customizer is open to any suggestions to finish it?

Would everyone understand 'LBC' (you know) means the item was slapped together quickly, may or may not be final, and might need ideas on what to do with it?

Thinking back to recent postings in the Critique section, I can't recall seeing a lot of uses of WIP lately. I just realized if I see a named item then I'm already in the mindset it is in the RTC category and that's how I'm approaching it. I'm wondering if I'm already setting myself up one way or another....

Dark Jedi man that was what I was looking for,just wanted the thoughts of what you think,and you laid it out real nice.

To me i think your right about somebody knocking one out of the park,i see so many examples of work that is just perfect IMO. And from seeing the cutoms and what they did,they give me ideas and those ideas help to make better customs.I look over all customs and I wish i had more time to post,there really are so many people who do great work,to many to list.

[pluv]

When I post a custom in the critiques section I honestly don't know how everyone will take it. I'm either happy with it or feel I'm done with it altogether. I post looking for feedback on the work. I take in all the opinions I get. If someone suggests a change I weigh it with what I envisioned. If it seems like a better idea, I'll use it. If it goes against what I was trying to accomplish this time, I'll try to remember it for custom down the road. Good, bad, indifferent, suggestions, I want them all, but they have to be true. I'm a god among men in the real world so I don't need sucking up online.

When I give critiques I try to point out what I really like about it or what I don't like about it. Saying "good job" is fine but saying good job on the paint or parts or sculpting let's them know what they got right. The same with advice for changes or suggestions for improving the custom. I don't expect anyone to take and do everything I say. I don't even do that. But maybe they didn't think of it or maybe it helps them down the road.

At the same time if I feel someone never listens to anything anyone ever tells them then I'm less likely to give them a critique. At that point I'm wasting both of our time by posting something they have no intention of accepting.

The one thing I don't do ina critique is try to give advice that is above someone's talent level. If someone posts their first custom I'm not going to tell them they need to use a 4 color camo pattern or sand off a molded on detail and sculpt a better thing on. I'm also not going to rip into them with all kinds of negatives. Neither of these things will help them get better at the beginning. Customizing takes time and practice to get better.

That said, it is one thing to give an honest criticism, another whole matter to just voice opinion because the subject matter doesn't do anything for you. I see quite a bit of those all around, where someone cannot help but say "These things just aren't my bag..", when the question was more about critique than one's personal preference.

I know what you mean. Sometimes you'll see the same response from someone to a bunch of customs that use a certain part or are in a certain style and it makes me wonder why anyone would take every oppertunity to knock it. That doesn't help anyone either. I do do it ot an extent though. Sigma 6 figures are not my thing, but when I see one that blows even me away I want to let the person know that. I'm not the best judge for these things since I'm not familiar with them, but from what I can tell that looks really good. Hopefully knowing that they caught the eye of someone who would normally pass it by makes them keep customizing them.