meddatron wrote:
ben1138 wrote:
My understanding of the relationship between Flint, Stalker, and Duke is that Flint is the Id (emotionally charged man of instant action), Stalker is the Ego (a realist and pragmatist of clear thought), and Duke is the super-ego (the one who has to weigh his options and then take morally correct course). The only trouble with that being that Flint is the highest rank, and First Sergeants, as NCOs, aren't really given command of units. Oh well, you can't have everything.
In Sunbow Flint was a warrant officer, having the rank of a WO-2. At the time that was the highest ranking Warrant Officer in the army. There are now 5 ranks of Warrant officers. Duke was a first Sgt which is the rank of E-8. Stalker was a Sgt Major (E-9). Of the 3 in the real US Army Stalker would be the highest rank. Here is where it gets tricky. Warrant officers are not enlisted, nor are they commisioned, they stand alone. They are appointed from either rank class. They can pull rank in certain instances and must be saluted like an officer. Most Warrant Officers that serve in the army are either glorified Mp's (as shown in renegades) or pilots (usually helicopters). They do not command at all. They are not part of a company per say, they are assigned to a company as kind of a watchdog. My company at Fort Leonardwood MO and at Fort Indiantown Gap PA each had 2 assigned warrant officers. One of each Rank.
GI Joe never did a good job of getting the ranks and who listens to who right. Technically on paper all officers outrank any NCO(non-commisioned Officers), but you will never see a 1st or 2nd LT (O-1,O-2)ever giving orders to a staff SGT (E-6) or above unless order was issued from above. Heck even my Captain(O-3) listened to E-6 and above. Officers (CO's - Commissioned officers)) didnt have much weight untill they became LT Colonel's (O-6) After that who listened to who was usually based on comparison of number beside rank. A SGT Major (E-9)was top dog and only answered to Generals (O-7 and above). No other CO's would dare tell him what to do.
This is all based on my time served in the 1990's. I finished as a Sgt E-5
Wow - nearly everything you said about WOs is incorrect. But I figure it's probably due to the limited exposure in your unit to WOs from the rest of the Army. I know I didn't know much about the WO corps until I actually became one - since the only WOs we had in my unit were pilots and the occasional Motor Pool Chief.
CW3s and CW4s have been around since the 40s. CW5 is the only new rank - established in 1991. No SGM outranks a Warrant Officer. They serve in staff positions at higher echelons, but they in no way outrank a Warrant - so no, there aren't "certain instances" when a WO can pull rank - they can do it any time they want. Warrant Officers in the grade of CW2 and above are Commissioned Officers - only WO1s are Appointed and they automatically get promoted to CW2 after 2 years.
Although about half of all Army Warrant Officers are pilots (about 5000), there are very few MP/CID Warrants. Most of the non-aviation Warrants are in Military Intelligence (over 1500) with the others spread out among the other fields (ADA, SF, Supply, MP, FA, Maintenance, etc.)
Also - Warrant Officers serve in command positions just like "regular" officers - although it's usually a Company Command. It happens most often in Aviation units, but there's a CW3 Supply guy down at Bragg that's a full-up Company Commander in one of the COSCOM units. I've got about 9 months of Company Command time and 2 years as a Plt Leader myself (spread out over 10 years as a WO.)
And as far as the regular Officer/NCO relationships go - it might have been that way in the MP world, but in most Army units, your Platoon Leader (1LT/2LT)
absolutely gives orders to his PLT SGT (E6/E7) - sure, the NCO is supposed to mentor the younger officers, but the LTs in no way need "permission" to give orders to their subordinates.
Anyway - not trying to come across as a dick - just wanting to set everything straight. There are quite a few of us Prior Service & Active Duty guys here from all branches and we've all got different experiences (but there's only one site expert on Warrant Officers thus far
). I spent 10 years enlisted (all through the 90s) making it up to SFC and 10 1/2 as a Warrant Officer (turning down promotion to CW4 so I could retire last summer.) Tsunami's another great resource for questions about Army rank structure/relationships - he's got over 20 years in and spent the first half enlisted as well.
But I've written extensively here about the discrepancies in rank & position among the Joes - even have a
JC Wiki article about it
- basically, I'm just throwing up my hands and giving up - nobody will ever get it right because the writers of the comics & the cartoons and the toy designers have no flippin' idea how the military works. Larry Hama knew a little, and laid down a decent framework, but even he got it wrong most of the time.
