ummm has already stated that the are going to do both movie figures and the 25th versions of RAH figs during the movie, they said so in the Hasbro Q & A. But they WON'T be doing any ARAH figs its all 25th style figs from here on out which they also said in the Q & A.

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That was a very polite and thorough response from Savage. I'm not going to pretend I don't think there's a relationship between the responce and the positive support Sledge Hammer got publicly speculating how hard it would be to take the club's status away. At least we got some answers from him.

Here's a divide I've noticed. Compare Savage to Beav, or GIJCC to Joecustoms. The highlight of the club is the stuff we can buy from them, the exclusives, the con. The highlight of JoeCustoms is the free stuff, the community, the sharing of news and ideas. When Savage asks members for help, he gets no response. When Beav asks for help, people throw enough money at him for a trip to Canada in three hours.

Ooh, I thought of a great Canadian analogy. GIJCC is Tim Hortons. If you go there for coffee and the cashier asks for a favour, you scoff at them and tell them to do their job. If they forget to charge you for part of your order, you sneak away and brag to your friends about it.

Joe Customs is your friend's house. If you go there for coffee, you don't wait to be asked, you offer to help. If they bought something from you and forget to ask for the money, you remind them, and apologize for making them wait.

If Brian Savage wants favours, he has to convince us he's our friend, not our coffee shop. Even if it's our favourite coffee shop and a national icon. How, specifically? Break down the wall. Put the newsletter back online. Make it free for non-members. Show that being a part of the community is in some ways as important to them as making money off it.

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Nice analogy, Scrams. Breaking down the wall is the biggest thing the club to do to mend fences. To me, the club is kind of like the old Soviet Union, with things done under a veil of secrecy. They need to come up with some sort of glasnost to be more open to it's membership. Things like:

1. Letting us know the process from brainstorming to finished product, the process of creating the con sets and exclusives. We keep hearing about what a pain it is, describe what goes on, and maybe more people would understand. With the Maulers, it was "They'll be ready after Thanksgiving", "They're delayed", "They're cancelled, the mold broke". Fill in the gaps with details, and maybe there wouldn't have been so much vitriol, maybe. It's the journey, not the destination that's interesting, let us come along.

2. Put the newsletter back online. Delay it a month or two, just put it back on. There was a stretch of nine months straight where I did not receive the printed version, and I didn't care because I could always go and get the online version. Now, they stop in August '07. Delaying a month would take any "Newness" away from it, as the information inside has already been out a while. Plus, having an archive of newsletters is a great way to entice troopers to pony up the $42 to become officers. I still enjoy looking through the back issues and the coverage of conventions I missed, plus I reread Thomas Wheeler's description of the 1994 convention whenever I need a laugh.

These are just a couple of quick n easy ways to improve the relations the club has with it's members, but we can only suggest, it's up to the club to make it happen.

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Obvouisly something is wrong when people don't feel they are listened to, perhapes the lack of ackowldgement.



So they run the injection machines and plant machines as well, I thought that was handled in china (Yes I a being a bit of a smart aleck here, but to illistrate something).

That statement comes accross as egocentric and doesn't acknowledge the manual labor done at the base level by hard working people. Probably wasn't ment to be such but it does come accross that way.



No but you could implement things in the future that incorperate the idea rather than blowing someone off



I have heard this before and went back looking over my collection, are you sure about that. Look at the recent set, not much detail at all in the teal there. but seriously I did go back and the "more detail" is a minor bit more really (Like one extra color or something).



People do this anyway.



UMM no that is a pretty vauge statement.



Like they guessed the Renegades a few years ago or Starduster last year, I mean people are pretty well getting it without help.



So that is why it should be up for free. I mean I am pretty sure I can think of an example given time of another organization who does this



Scarmbles responce does alot for this commet.

But of course you could just google.



Sorry smart aleck again but-

There is only one Beav and he can code the hell out of the place.

But also he is smart enough to spread out the responceiblities as the site expanded, but coding (which this was in reference to) is still all Beav.



A bit of a smart alek question but-Has anyone been on a message board that they asked you specificly how to fix it. I mean get to a point that people can begin to see whats wrong besides everything. I went there twice and had a headache each time. Fred Flintsone used that board.



Does anyone believe that these three spend THAT much time on the figures. How? It seems like the process (based on posts I have seen in the past), Call about molds, find out if they exist, work up paint if they do, alternate plan if not, get the manufacturing done, if they did con sets every quarter I could see it, but really this seems like a stretch.

BUT if it isn't then get some mods.





Does that not smack of elitism. "I do no wrong, its your fault."



In other words don't speak your mind because of fear of hurting someones feelings. Talk about being too serious.



Don't presume to know what mom taught me, Mom actually said "If you feel strongly speak your mind, it is the only way to affect change."



That is unless you are talking about something sujective in which all there can be is opinion. Like "do you like the way things are going in this organization right now?"



Fair enough, but clear communication does clear the air and ends the guess work. If someone isn't told the answer they will assume one, its human nature.



Of course having the wall up for so long toward non paying members helped in that endever. In fact it was accendental most people found out about the new free option.



This fits the description here:



Really I can't say it any better.



And that just comes accross as "You do the work, we reep the benifits."

So, once again, it's all OUR fault that the Club sucks. How does he get away with this crap?!?

More to point:


To be fair, they are 12' collectors. Not 3 3/4...at not until it was financially beneficial for them to be. And, I'm guessing he won't debate anyone online since he can throw naysayers out of his convention but not delete posts on message boards he doesn't control.


So, it's all Hasbro's fault, but we're not going to tell you that except now, when you bring the issue up. And, if they listened to ideas, things would have significantly changed since 2002. As they haven't, well, that speaks for itself.


Ummm, you're the club. You paid to do this all yourselves. If I had the license, I'd try hard to make awesome figures, too. But, I'd listen to people a little more and not just make something because one of my friends wanted it...everyone else be damned.


I'd agree then can't just return to the well anytime they want on product. But, a better understanding of what collectors really want would help them better gauge demand and offer products that were more appealing. Sell outs aren't a bad thing...provided that the items aren't too limited.


This all comes back to knowing your audience. A few people close to the club wanted boxes so they were given to all of fandom. So, by failing to understand their customers, they offered something we weren't interested in...except in limited numbers. Had they known the 3 3/4 collector base and the market for those products, they would have offered exclusives that were more in line with our purchasing tendencies.

(Why buy new army builders for $14 each when you can, in most cases, buy the vintage version for that price or maybe even less? Failure to know the marketplace in which they operate.)


Hasbro's fault. Not ours for putting together a real business plan that shows how the market could absorb numbers at a certain price point. All Hasbro's fault.


This is just horse crap. We know there will be figures and vehicles. Hell, the three Joes are on the box art this year! Give us prices. If you tell me that there will a figure 2 pack at the con for $50, I can't see 2 figs for $50 and automatically know that it's going to be a Star Duster and Grand Slam. But, I do know that it's a product I want and I can give people money to buy it.


Hmmm. How about you make info free? Info costs nothing and gives you credibility. Benefits of membership can be discounted product, early con entry or access to exclusive seminars or roundtables. Keeping info out of the hands of collectors segregates the community and has pretty much rendered the Club's "info" obsolete. Offering it online, timely and free to everyone would make MC the place to go for info instead of Hisstank.com.


3 of them...hmmm...that's not what was offered up a while back in regards to some other dealings. Interesting that numbers change when it benefits them....

Also, again, it's our fault. We pay them and they want us to do their work. When we don't and complain, we're to blame. How about putting that membership money to work and going to some classes to learn how to do this stuff? That's how real businesses work.


Again, our fault. He can't figure out what a message board should have?!? It's not that hard and most standard packages have the features that people want. Plus, I'm sure the "0" suggestions are actually "0 that I've cared to listen to".


You know what? That's typical of anyone who has a job. Everyone gets tons of email every day. Magazines and print publications are outdated and even those who are in that industry will tell you that. It's time to modernize and realize that the web is the present, not the future and trying to ignore it only makes you obsolete.


So, quit [LASER BLAST] about how bad I do my job because someone might listen and I might lose this gravy train I've been on the last few years.


Interesting that he doesn't have time to respond to email, update the site and do everythign else but does have time to read threads about him. (He'll deny he has time, but certainly seems to know who is saying what about him.....) The reason no one comes to the Club's defense is because their actions are largely indefensible. They have pulled so much underhanded and outright shady things over the years that they have no credibility in the community and no one trusts them. As such, if someone says something about them, it is believable based on the club's past actions.



Yet, when people have volunteered to help, the Club either doesn't respond or turns them away. Basically, they want to sit on the haunches, collect their fees and do as little as possible and we can suck it up and take it. Yeah, that's who I want representing fandom....

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Like I said in one of the other threads -- because people will still buy their "LASER BLAST" no matter what. Until they see a dramatic decrease in membership or Con attendance, they could give a rat's ass about the fans, because the damn fans will keep shelling out $$$ regardless. But who cares if members/fans are [LASER BLAST] if they're still paying you while they do so? Will revamping your whole business model bring you that much more product? I don't think so. There are even Joe Fans out there that still buy all the Hasbro-produced toys despite not liking them. The Club knows that it has people that will put up with anything to get their little pieces of plastic (especially now that they're the only ones producing ARAH-style figs.)

So it will continue until people stop buying - which will never happen with this crowd.

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I wanted to respond with ideas to help improve their site and their service, but I don't have it in me. Lanny, Brian, and David run the site, the store, publish a newsletter, and are in charge of producing collector grade figures and vehicles and everything that goes along with that. I think that explains the bulk of the issues I have with them. I can't imagine anyone trying to tackle that much at once because I can't imagine anyone being silly enough to try. You can't fix all the small problems without fixing the bigger problems.

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I just have to say that as an outsider (non-member) looking in, none of this makes me want to join the club. That and the hefty prices they charge for their offerings pretty much keeps me away.

I just can't afford $250+ for toys all at once, let alone the price it would cost for me to attend the con. Between plane fare, food, hotel and all those other nickel and dime costs, my wife would tear my nuts off, plain and simple. The fact that people "part out" the club's pieces to sell on Ebay is the only way I can afford to get any of the club's items, which is too bad because I really like a lot of their stuff.

I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Perhaps the club should think about WHY people buy from Ebay and address that issue by changing things at the club rather than do what they are currently doing about it, which is nothing.

If the club itself were to offer items individually instead of in these huge and pricey sets (where I'm guessing a good chunk of the cost is due to the elaborate packaging), they might sell through on the items they offer. I know I would rather buy directly from the club, thus giving money to people actually working to produce past and future items, rather than a seller on Ebay who simply pockets the money.

As it stands, I will continue to pay $10-15 for a single con figure offered on Ebay, rather than pay the club $250 for the whole set plus the price for a club officer membership plus any additional s/h costs. Just thinking about paying that much for toys all at once makes my testicles hurt.

Just something for the club to think about.

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Here's my two cents that I posted on the Club board.

I attended Joecon for the first time in 2007 and decided to go for two reasons. One, a group of my friends from across the country (and world) were converging there to meet and hang out. And two it was the 25th Anniversary and I wanted to be there for that celebration. I wanted to have a complete set of the souvenirs as a memento of the occasion. But I don't because I wasn't aware of the cost of the Tanks so I didn't budget for that additional cost. Had this lack of information been a one time occurrence I'd be okay with it. It was the 25th Anniversary and some surprises are okay. But this was not a one time deal. The Club on a yearly basis fails to provide the pricing for the additional exclusives.

I have to say the "excuse" for not having pricing until the last minute sounds like bullsh!t to me. Any company that doesn't have an idea of what its product is going to cost to produce beforehand is either utterly ignorant of basic business logic or willfully withholding information. To NOT get an estimate of what it's going to cost is just a BAD way to do business. In any business I've been involved with you go to your manufacturer with a set of specs and say we want this made out of these materials in this timeframe. What's it going to cost? And the manufacturer says its going to cost $XXX.XX. We add in any shipping costs (which we also can estimate based on previous product shipments) and our gross profit and that's our set price to our customers. IF there are any additional costs after the quote is given then we take it as a loss out of our profit. That's the way any business works.

So how is it that the Club can't use these same business practices? Is it really impossible to go to the manufacturers and say "we want to make X number of different figures using molds A, B, C, etc. Figures 1, 2 and 3 will have X number of paint masks, figures 4, 5, and 6 will have X number of paint masks and 1 vehicle using mold G molded in these colors. Packaging will be XXX for X items and XXX for X items. And we need theses quantities ... all scheduled to arrive by X/X/XX. What's that going to cost?"

And you can't honestly tell me the Club doesn't know what the estimated shipping costs will be. Anyone with an internet connection and a phone can figure that out. I used to do it all the time in my previous job. Its not that hard.

As to the issue of unexpected costs from mold refurbishing etc well that's where it comes out of your projected profit. That's the way business works. Some products make more money and some products lose money. That's basic business 101. And I know this is a specialty product we're talking about here but it doesn't make a difference. If the Club is operating on such a shoe-string budget that they can't afford to let even one fraction of a percentage point of profit go then I'd say they have bigger problems than announcing the prices ahead of time. Either that or they are just plain greedy.

If the Club were to follow this basic business principle AND not give away specifics of what the exclusives will be then all they have to say is "this is what it's going to cost for all the exclusives" and give the total price. Don't break it down into 3-pack this and 2-pack that. Just the total. That's all people are asking. But apparently either laziness, incompetence or greed is preventing even that.

The response that the Club "doesn't know yet" is a sad statement to the way the business is being run and in my opinion its either due to laziness, incompetence or lies. Add all this to the fact that despite being unable to know the pricing for the additional exclusives the Club has the boxed/bagged set prices ready to go months in advance and one can only be led to a$$ume that the Club is lazy at best and outright lying at the worst. Unfortunately I'm leaning towards the latter.

I won't be attending the convention this year due to the dates scheduled. It is too close to San Diego Comicon, a trip I take every year and have funds committed to already. However if that weren't a factor I don't know that I'd be willing to gamble on the Club's "budget a little more than last year" math as we've seen from the examples showb by a previous poster that that particular "logic" doesn't quite work.

Its unfortunate because I think having a G.I. Joe collector's club is a really good thing for Joe collectors of ALL scales. The Club provides a great opportunity for collectors to gather together and products that aren't available in mass-market retail. But like most things in our world today, the negative more than outshines the positive. And I'm not just talking about the pricing issue either. The lack of communication, the nearly impossible to navigate website, the antiquated message board also contribute to the negative stigma surrounding the Club. I wish I had a solution to the problem because I really want the Club to succeed. But from what I've seen I don't think it would matter anyway.

Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Eh, I'm glad to be rid of most of my GIJCC figures now and I'm doubtful I'll by any more at this point aside from the Cobra Commander I should be getting for reupping to be eligible to get into the con via the deal I'd gotten set up. I attended the con last year and the only reason I've had passing thoughts of attending for this year were the chance to meet some people I haven't and a hope of getting wined and dined by Hasbro again. Honestly, I think I've enjoyed the years that I didn't attend the con reading reports as they come in more than I did actually being there as stuff was shown.


But at this point I think I can officially say that *I'll" be keeping my money to myself from this point out. Yeah, one guy doing this isn't going to bring them crashing down and I have no illusions to the contrary. I just don't feel they deserve my business any more. Means more to me to be sure my money isn't supporting somewhere whose business methods and attitude towards customers make me uncomfortable than to get the occasional figure.

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I dont' see myself EVAR joining the club under its current management and thier "We aren't at fault for ANYTHING but Transformer fans are MORE important to us than the JOE fans mentality". And thier LIMITED production runs but still you can find them on Evilbay from Asia somewhere so they lie about that. I agree with the bit about they should say how much things will run people cause at this point and thier "just add a little bit to last yr's" quote that means EVERY yr will be more and more cause they know they can get away with it. Plus thier prices per figure is just TOO crazy to begin with.

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This isn't the first time I heard them utter that "give us solutions, not problems" crap. Seriously, if you are going to operate like a business rather than the club you claim to be, that is fine. But don't expect us to donate our free time to fixing your problems. We arn't members, we are customers. And I am not doing business with you so that I can fix your problems.

The Tim Horton's analogy was dead on when it comes to all of this.

Given the role that the "club" has put us in, we do our part to tell them what is wrong with the club. They see this every day with their website and every year with their convention registration. It is their role to fix it.

Besides, how exactly are we supposed to come to them with solutions when THEY WON'T TELL US ANYTHING! Are we just supposed to keep going to them with ideas and let them shoot them down until they have something that fits their secret business model.

The ONLY reason I am a member of the club is because of the convention. If it was not for that, I have no reason to be a member or give them any of my money. The "free" figures are forgettable, the newsletter is a joke and the website is nearly useless. Since they opted to drop the MOTH vehicle set, there are no non-convention exclusives that interest me. I previously had pre-ordered 25A figures through them to save me the hassle of hunting them down. But after they decided to find in favor of themselves over a $3.00 discrepancy that was their mistake, I stopped all that.

It is nice to know that the reduced price of the bag sets hurts them because people resell them on ebay. I was pretty much planning on doing just that to get some extra BATs.

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One thing that I find interesting is in other posts they have talked about how well the membership drive is doing but they have never said if it's new paying members or free members. Personally my paid membership ran out months ago but I'm still able to read and post over there. I think this must have something to do with Hasbro stepping in and telling them to make it free for those who want it for free. G.I. Joe is after all a Hasbro product and not a Fun Publication property so it stands to reason Hasbro would want the official collector club accessible by every. That just means more attention for Hasbro, thus more money for them.

If I were Hasbro I would step in a little more and get someone working closer to with the collectors club and help them get their act together before the whole collecting community reaches the breaking point and we all loose interest in G.I. Joe as a whole. It seems like it's the only way things are going to improve with Fun Publications and the Collectors Club at this point. The whole thing sort of reminds me of wrestling and the character Vince McMahon plays on TV (and apparently back stage) where he is right and everyone else is wrong. Someone needs to step in and tell them "We see there is a problem, many G.I. Joe fans are becoming upset and we need to fix this".

Don't ask us, the members to fix it. They know there is problem with the web layout yet say "We asked for help and got none". Well I don't know a thing about web design, but I know what I like and what I don't like. That's like me saying "My Hyundai Accent is a piece of crap and I'll never buy one again" and Hyundai saying "Well if you redesign the engine for us then maybe well go with that". No freaking way. I paid for my Accent and I know the car sucks and I won't buy one again. Well, I paid for my membership and I've renewed it for years waiting for things to improve. They haven't and this year I didn't renew.

Others have said it and I'm agreeing more and more. It's time to let my money speak for me.

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Flash isn't the answer. There's no need for such bells and whistles.

Other question, was there any offer for payback for this help? When you have a club that's membership has been, until recently, all paying to be members to ask for free help is a little insulting and cheap. If there wasn't an offer of a least some free figures or an extra year on the house then there's little wonder there were no takers to spend their time on that.

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Just goes back to the fact that they are greedy plain and simple. Who designed their website in the first place? Can't they go to that person and ask them to redesign it for them? Or are they THAT frelling cheap that they have to ask their customers to do it for them? Cheap bastards.

Like I said the only reason I joined was because I had to to get the boxed set at the con last year (it was either join and pay the fee or not join and pay more for the set, which the difference just happened to be the fee) I'm not re-upping this year and honestly I'm not going to miss it.

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