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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:27 pm 
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Suburbanator wrote:
I'd go along with the new series looking Resolute.

Strikes me as funny.


Because, see, the animation style isn't that different from Sigma Six.

But when Sigma Six came out everyone was all BOO ANIME MORE LIKE SIGMA SUX GIJOE SHOULDN'T BE ANIME!

But now, everyone's fine with anime designs because of Resolute.

You guys are weird.

And I'll take Sigma Six over Resolute any day.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Jay wrote:
Suburbanator wrote:
I'd go along with the new series looking Resolute.

Strikes me as funny.


Because, see, the animation style isn't that different from Sigma Six.

But when Sigma Six came out everyone was all BOO ANIME MORE LIKE SIGMA SUX GIJOE SHOULDN'T BE ANIME!

But now, everyone's fine with anime designs because of Resolute.

You guys are weird.

And I'll take Sigma Six over Resolute any day.


Maybe its cause of the way it WENT in the cartoon. Actual death instead of no one dying? Never seen the S6 cartoons so don't know if anyone died besides Bats like in the reg cartoons. I actually liked Resolute but HATE the way they draw the Clone Wars stuff. I don't really see where Resolute was done Anime style. Not even close to Anime style. But thats just my opinion

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:47 am 
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roguetiger wrote:
Jay wrote:
Suburbanator wrote:
I'd go along with the new series looking Resolute.

Strikes me as funny.


Because, see, the animation style isn't that different from Sigma Six.

But when Sigma Six came out everyone was all BOO ANIME MORE LIKE SIGMA SUX GIJOE SHOULDN'T BE ANIME!

But now, everyone's fine with anime designs because of Resolute.

You guys are weird.

And I'll take Sigma Six over Resolute any day.


Maybe its cause of the way it WENT in the cartoon. Actual death instead of no one dying? Never seen the S6 cartoons so don't know if anyone died besides Bats like in the reg cartoons. I actually liked Resolute but HATE the way they draw the Clone Wars stuff. I don't really see where Resolute was done Anime style. Not even close to Anime style. But thats just my opinion


The biggest problem I had with S6 was that it was "EXTREME!!1!!eleventy-one!" I also didn't buy the toys because they weren't in scale with my collection. Resolute just fit my taste better.

And I'm sorry, I don't see how you cannot see any anime influence in Resolute. Let's ignore the facial characteristics, which are the most blatant and obvious. The pacing of the fights is a great big giveaway, and the character design is another.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:17 am 

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well TF wise armada and energon is so much better than the new animated series the way it looks, Resolute is anime like but not totally, s6 looked more that style , I want a cartoon that looks more like the 80's ones or even 90's spidy but with lotsa action scenes like resolute


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:14 am 
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Tanstoys wrote:
well TF wise armada and energon is so much better than the new animated series the way it looks

:rotfl: :lol: :rotfl:

Armada had the shoddiest frame rate ever! About 80% of the fight scenes were just still images of both sides scrolling across the screen while laser blasts were animated in!
Half the time a Transformer in vehicle mode moved across the scene it was just a still cell being moved or zoomed in on, they didn't even animate the wheels turning!
Proportions went out the whazoo, at one point Jetfire Pants Prime flew towards the camera but his head remained the same size throughout the zoom, as he started with a huge one that ended teensy!
It was atrociously nasty animation!

As for Energon... I'll let the Transformers Wiki fill that in:
Quote:
Energon introduced a new concept to Transformers cartoons: the blending of CGI with traditional cel animation. The animators rendered the Transformer characters in cel-shaded CGI, while animating humans and other aspects of the show through traditional means. On the plus side, this allowed for a consistently high level of cel animation quality (especially enjoyable after the often scattershot quality of Armada). In particular, the show uses the CGI to show many characters in motion at once, often with a high frame rate that gives them a very fluid appearance (for example, the many charges of the Battle Ravage Terrorcon drones, replete with numerous stamping legs and bobbing heads and tails.)

On the other hand, the CGI animation is positively primitive. Characters possess no sense of weight and can not move in any manner but the most basic. Even walking is a challenge for characters with bulky models, like Ironhide, who is often reduced to swinging his arms and legs back and forth while sliding along a predetermined path. The black-line outlines of character models were often not rescaled for different shots, resulting in the characters sometimes appearing as indecipherable masses of heavy black lines.

Additionally, "emotion" is nonexistent; the blank-faced CGI models could not easily display any facial expressions beyond "mouth open" and "mouth closed." Numerous characters don't have facial animation, even ones with mouths. Most prominent among these is Alpha Q, who has no facial animation at all despite the fact that he's basically nothing but four faces. In some cases, when it was necessary for a character to emote visibly (Megatron's pronounced yawning, Inferno's tortured screaming), or to do something visually dynamic (acrobatic transformation), the CGI would actually be replaced with cel animation, because it just looked more impressive. Does that seem right to you?

In addition, the show's CGI compares very poorly with Beast Wars and Beast Machines, both of which came out years previously, both of which were fully CGI (without the crutch of cel animation to fall back on), and both of which had characters who boasted complex, nuanced facial expressions and fluid, constant body language — even the ones with utterly inhuman faces and bodies. The only way to spare the animators' reputation is to assume that Energon's budget was miniscule in comparison.

Even within the limits of the animation, many bad editing, design, and lighting choices make the series difficult to follow visually. Unicron's body — primarily black, to match his Energon redeco toy — is frequently lost against the blackness of space. When Alpha Q energizes Unicron's head, it becomes the Energon Orb, with no visual indication as to what it used to be. Scenes set underground or within Unicron's body are commonly underlit, to the point that the characters can't even be distinguished. Strange elements such as the rift in space are inconsistently animated and described by the characters, making it difficult to figure out what they are.


Honestly, to tell me that Armada and Energon's animations are better than Animated's... I've just got but one question for you: Are you blind?

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:28 am 
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Resolute seemed more adult in nature. Not just the content, but Sig6 seemed more like PokeMon or Yu-Gi-Oh in it's animation. The big eyes, the flapping mouths, things like giant tear drops forming behind the character when they were upset, or exclamation points when they were yelling. No stupid looking hair like Yu-Gi-Oh, Sonic, or Dragonball.
The only episode of Sig6 I saw was Heavy Duty and Tunnel Rat had an eating contest and their animation for eating was too kiddie Japanamation like, less G.I.*JOE like.

I've always liked the Batman animated series, but that type of stylized animation wouldn't work for G.I.*JOE. First off, Gotham City has always had a sort of art-deco look to it and the stylized animation fits with that. I loved the thick black outline and squared style of Clone Wars (the non CGI version), but again, that won't work for G.I.*JOE.

Besides Resolute's style, the only other style I could see with G.I.*JOE, would be with the style used on Ben 10, as that is seems like an updated version of what Sunbow did, or maybe the Spawn movie from many years ago (Been many years since I've seen that, but I remember the animation being very good).

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:31 am 
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Well I hope the new Cartoon is anything but Resolute.

I think they should just have fun.

Seriously Death in a cartoon, over rated. Especially in a cartoon where most of the characters have fans. I mean sure alot of people are ok with Bazooka, but what happens when Beachhead buys it, or Shipwreck, maybe Dusty and Tripwire get outed as homosexuals, then both get gunned down by Gay hating Cross Country. I mean that's a fairly grown up story, really makes Joe more adult oriented and contemporary. Maybe they can go the modern Thundercats comic route and turn on the Joe gals into captured sex slaves.

Meanwhile we'll just regurgitate fan wank ninja fights every episode, so everyone will think whoa cool, and not notice all the rest of the crap being shoveled our way week after week.

I am sure all the super awesome death and big time action fighting show will surely increase sales in the toy isle.

well except the characters that die.

also the shifting reality of Resolute is really a good example of the problem you get adding realism to something like Joe. I mean Some people die, but Duke and Scarlett back to back no cover shooting what double pistos and hoards of enemies with rifles. Yay realism.

also transformers animated is a great show. I am totally cool with joe going a route similar to that, as long as the figs look the similar to the other figs I buy. Also A Ben 10 styled show would rock.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:41 am 
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danielb wrote:
maybe Dusty and Tripwire get outed as homosexuals, then both get gunned down by Gay hating Cross Country. .

Is that for real?


I'd thought about that too, while all but Cobra's leaders are nothing but bullet spounges, the Joes are all name characters, they'd be harder to kill off. If the animation was like Resolute it'd be great, but what you bought up about people dying makes a point too. However, that aspect of it is the writing, not the animation. Any type of animation is how the story is presented, the writing is how it's told, so any group of writers may still kill people off.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:04 am 

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well it's been quite awhile since I saw Armada or energon so I don't remember alot of it but I know energon was much better than Armada was, as for being blind watching the animated series you would go blind as it sucks so bad that if TF cartoons were gonna keep progress into more "LASER BLAST" than they have been over the years they should stop making them IMO, but everybody has there thoughts and opinions about what's good or bad. I can honestly say the Cybertron series was total crap though


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:04 pm 
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TF Animated is exactly what I'd want from a new Joe cartoon, not stylistically (though it suited Transformers) but something akin to that in storyline. Something appealing to kids, intelligent enough for adults to enjoy, a continuing storyline, etc. I'll say that in terms of story and character, Animated beats pretty much every TRansformers cartoon except perhaps Beast Wars/Machines, and it's pretty close there.

I don't mind the character designs of Resolute, or Sigma Six, but the animation in Resolute was smoother and more detailed, so I'm hoping we get something close quality wise. I don't really want the tone of Resolute in a new toon though, not that I think that route is likely. It'll be written with kids in mind, and will almost certainly be the RoC continuity.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:07 pm 
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A couple of great things about the original cartoon for me:

The music - compelling tunes that conveyed emotion and adventure instead of just cheesy synthesized chords underscoring big beats.

Great voice actors - If Michael Bell is back, make him Duke!

Great animation backdrop mattes - I love the reds and blues in the skies, especially in the MASS Device Mini-series.

Playful characterization and writing - characters are comical but rarely jokey. Relationships are dynamic - Baroness sells out Cobra's ghosts to the Joes? Cobra Commander has to cooperate with Flint and Lady Jaye? Zarana falls in love with Mainframe?!?


Those are a few things that subsequent Joe animations really dropped the ball on.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:56 pm 
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HypnoHustler wrote:
and will almost certainly be the RoC continuity.

I don't think so, no.
Rise of Cobra was good for the brand and all, but both Transformers films did even better for Transformers and yet Animated was not a continuation of the film, nor does the next cartoon seem to be.
They're going to keep the movie as the movie and the cartoon as something new.

As for Resolute animation, it's easier to splurge for animation on a one-hour short compared to a 26-episode TV series. I truly doubt Resolute's budget could be kept for a constant series.
I mean, compare the 1986 Transformers film to its preceeding and subsequent seasons. Or Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz to the Gundam Wing series. Or Spongebob Squarepants: The Movie to Spongebob Squarepants.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:59 pm 
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I agree with JFAK a style along the lines of Resolute would make me happy. Yes it had a slight anime vibe but it wasn't stupid like Sigma Six with the big eyes, tiny noses, tears and hearts in the background, Tunnel Rat eating bugs and an intelligence factor that would of insulted a one cell microorganism.

I'd like it to be somewhere in between the original series and Resolute. As Stalker mentioned the original had AMAZING music, voice acting, and characterizations. The current mindset with cartoons is one of pure laziness (and yes I feel Transformers Animated falls into the lazy category far too dumb for my tastes and the character design was enough to induce vomiting).

I don't think there is much chance of Michael Bell being in anything Susan Blu is casting or directing since she has been the head of casting and directing for awhile now and has never once used him in anything she has done. I think the fact that he is pretty adamant about not dumbing down cartoons is probably something she doesn't want to deal with since she seems to go that route sadly.

It would be awesome of if they got Andrea Romano (who voice directed most of the Batman and JLU stuff). However they could leave those character designs and keep the characterizations, music, and story.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Seriously, have you actually watched TF Animated? I wasn't sold on the style either, but it's a seriously good show, with more serious stories and themes than the Sunbow Joe 'toon. Anything but dumbed down.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new GIJoe cartoon??
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:09 pm 

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If you take the writing and, plot development and characterization of TF Animated and meld it with the brilliant art direction of Resolute, you have a winner.

I'd imagine that's what we'll get, too. Pretty exciting.


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